1964 Thunderbird Brake light issues

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve,
Sounds like a solid plan, I will start getting after it ASAP. Thank you all so much - this is the last thing I need working to pass inspection, I have everything else sorted - much of it thanks to you all!! I think I am going to perform a continuity test between that hanging red/green wire near the fuse box and the boot that covers the switch. I suspect they are connected.

If you do find they are connected then it might be as simple as putting power to the green red wire and the brake lights should work. I would say to check that circuit first! That other connection out at the fender (that had the fuse in it) may not have anything to do with the brakes.

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[Shadrack]

If you do find they are connected then it might be as simple as putting power to the green red wire and the brake lights should work. I would say to check that circuit first! That other connection out at the fender (that had the fuse in it) may not have anything to do with the brakes.

Steve,

Okay, I have a cheap multimeter with tiny little exposed leads. I can test continuity at each fuse and I am good to go. However, I put the red lead on the breakers and touched some bare metal all around the car and could not find any constant hot wires! I guess I should hook the ground up the battery via my alligator clip wire chain - weird huh?

Here is what I found - the wire from the solenoid to the fuse is good.

I put the leads across the switch to test for continuity and pressed the brake pedal - here is where it gets weird. I pressed the pedal and sure enough continuity - good switch! However, it stuck! I pressed the pedal over and over and it would stick and I would get the constant beep. I tapped the pedal a few times and it stopped, then started again. Not sure why my brake pedal is sticking, that must be another issue. My brakes feel strong when I drove the car around my yard and down the street. What can I do with this/is this a sign of something else? I know its off topic and we can discuss it in another post just putting it out there.

Here is the big deal - I test continuity from the green/red wire to the actual boot/plug (I put a piece of copper in it and bridged it because my leads on my tester are so small. IT BEEPED! I HAVE CONTINUITY between the green/red wire and the boot/plug! So this means I am very close right?

Here is my next question - are the brake lights separate or do they work with the directionals? My directionals left/right, my tail lights work. Are the brake lights separate, different bulbs? I looked under the dash and did not see any hacked green wires other than the newish pair of green wires running to the ignition.

I have ordered a new switch and boot from Mac's - so I thought I would wire that in. I also ordered a few circuit breakers - would any of these work, or do I need to piggyback and return these?

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Thanks a billion million trillion,
Don

 

[fordrodsteven]

Steve,

Okay, I have a cheap multimeter with tiny little exposed leads. I can test continuity at each fuse and I am good to go. However, I put the red lead on the breakers and touched some bare metal all around the car and could not find any constant hot wires! I guess I should hook the ground up the battery via my alligator clip wire chain - weird huh?

If you're going from fuses to body you should set the multimeter to check voltage... not continuity. Think about it for a second if you had continuity from fuse to ground it would be a short and would blow the fuse or melt the wires. You can make a jumper lead with alligator clips at both ends then use it as an extension from you multimeter. I always keep a couple alligator / jumper wires in my box., some as long as 10 feet.

Here is what I found - the wire from the solenoid to the fuse is good.

Okay but we really don't know what that wire and fuse are for. I wouldn't be concerned with that right now. Let's just focus on getting the brake lights working so you can clear that inspection.

I put the leads across the switch to test for continuity and pressed the brake pedal - here is where it gets weird. I pressed the pedal and sure enough continuity - good switch! However, it stuck! I pressed the pedal over and over and it would stick and I would get the constant beep. I tapped the pedal a few times and it stopped, then started again. Not sure why my brake pedal is sticking, that must be another issue. My brakes feel strong when I drove the car around my yard and down the street. What can I do with this/is this a sign of something else? I know its off topic and we can discuss it in another post just putting it out there.

Yes, Address this later. You may find the car should be running for it all to work correctly.

Here is the big deal - I test continuity from the green/red wire to the actual boot/plug (I put a piece of copper in it and bridged it because my leads on my tester are so small. IT BEEPED! I HAVE CONTINUITY between the green/red wire and the boot/plug! So this means I am very close right?

I don't understand exactly what you did. Did you bridge at the boot / plug? If so you may have gotten a somewhat erroneous result because you really didn't isolate the green red wire all by itself. Make a jumper wire long enough to reach from the boot/plug to inside the car where you have the multimeter hooked to the green red wire at the other end. Connect it to the green red wire at the boot/plug. You want to get a check on it as a completely isolated wire from one end to the other. Please recheck the green-red wire as an isolated line.

Here is my next question - are the brake lights separate or do they work with the directionals? My directionals left/right, my tail lights work. Are the brake lights separate, different bulbs? I looked under the dash and did not see any hacked green wires other than the newish pair of green wires running to the ignition.

The brake lights are the same bulb filament as the directional. The brake lights run through the directional switch in the steering column. The job of the directional switch is to allow the brake lights to operate on one side whilst rerouting a part of the power through the flasher to make the other side blink the lights. You may find that the brake light wiring has not been hacked on your car and that would be a very good thing!

I have ordered a new switch and boot from Mac's - so I thought I would wire that in. I also ordered a few circuit breakers - would any of these work, or do I need to piggyback and return these?

A new switch would probably be a good thing. You might have to bleed brakes when you change the switch so I would hold off on replacement right at this moment (maybe change it after you clear inspection) What is wrong with the boot/plug that you think you need to change it? f it plugs in and makes good contact it is fine and really doesn't need to be replaced. I looked at the circuit breakers you attached here in pictures. They will work if you choose to go that route. you can do the piggyback as we discussed earlier or you can install one these breakers. You should use 15A not 20A. You would hook black-yellow to one stud and green-red to the other. Make sure it is mounted so as not to touch anything else that would short it out.

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Thanks a billion million trillion,
Don

I responded individually to each of your questions (in red text)

 

[Shadrack]

Hey Steve!

So, I did use the DC to check voltage at the breakers in the car. It was odd, I was not getting any reading from anything. I will try again and see if I can use the battery as ground.

I bridged the boot/plug with a piece of copper wire. I then hooked the green/red wire up to an alligator clip on a wire, clipped it to my negative on my multimeter, then touched the positive end to the copper bridge - I got continuity. Does that make sense? I can take pictures and/or draw up what I did - my terminology for all this is bad.

I can shove copper wires down into each side of the boot/plug individually to test the connection.

Are you saying that I should try hooking the green/red wire to constant power, plugging the makeshift fuse back in, put the boot on the switch, and pressing the brake pedal to see what I get?'

If I do not get brake lights - what else could it be? My stoplight relay - the one behind the washer bag, is brand new so all should be well. I guess my question is if the lights still do not work even after a good continuity test - what else should I look at?

Thank you so much - and also thank you to everyone else - trying to get this old girl to pass inspection.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve!

So, I did use the DC to check voltage at the breakers in the car. It was odd, I was not getting any reading from anything. I will try again and see if I can use the battery as ground.

I bridged the boot/plug with a piece of copper wire. I then hooked the green/red wire up to an alligator clip on a wire, clipped it to my negative on my multimeter, then touched the positive end to the copper bridge - I got continuity. Does that make sense? I can take pictures and/or draw up what I did - my terminology for all this is bad.

I can shove copper wires down into each side of the boot/plug individually to test the connection.

Are you saying that I should try hooking the green/red wire to constant power, plugging the makeshift fuse back in, put the boot on the switch, and pressing the brake pedal to see what I get?'

If I do not get brake lights - what else could it be? My stoplight relay - the one behind the washer bag, is brand new so all should be well. I guess my question is if the lights still do not work even after a good continuity test - what else should I look at?

Thank you so much - and also thank you to everyone else - trying to get this old girl to pass inspection.

Start first by pushing a wire into the individual side (green-red) of the boot/plug. Check continuity from there to the green-red lug at the fuse box. If it reads as continuous then that makeshift fuse probably has nothing to do with brake lights. If that seems to be the case don't be concerned with that makeshift fuse at this time.
Once you are certain the green wire (while isolated) is good from the boot/plug to the green-red lug at the fuse box we can go to the next step.

 

[64ZCODE]

Don, you tested continuity on the brake switch and said it "stuck". This could be defective brake switch or it's possible the booster/master cylinder is sticking and therefore not releasing pressure on the switch. My recommendation is replace the brake switch if you haven't already, they're cheap and readily available, and see if that fixes the issue. But if it turns out the booster/master cylinder is sticking, that's bad and would result in the brakes dragging constantly which will kill the brake shoes and possibly damage the drums and other components.

Doug

 

[fordrodsteven]

Don, you tested continuity on the brake switch and said it "stuck". This could be defective brake switch or it's possible the booster/master cylinder is sticking and therefore not releasing pressure on the switch. My recommendation is replace the brake switch if you haven't already, they're cheap and readily available, and see if that fixes the issue. But if it turns out the booster/master cylinder is sticking, that's bad and would result in the brakes dragging constantly which will kill the brake shoes and possibly damage the drums and other components.

Doug

I'm just trying to help him get his brake lights functioning right now. Once that's sorted, if he feels he has a braking issue, he can start a new thread and we'll help him get through that.

 

[Shadrack]

Start first by pushing a wire into the individual side (green-red) of the boot/plug. Check continuity from there to the green-red lug at the fuse box. If it reads as continuous then that makeshift fuse probably has nothing to do with brake lights. If that seems to be the case don't be concerned with that makeshift fuse at this time.
Once you are certain the green wire (while isolated) is good from the boot/plug to the green-red lug at the fuse box we can go to the next step.

Hey Steve,

Okay, I went out and did the one side of the boot/plug it is hard to see the color of the wires because they are so old. I included pictures. It tested positive for connectivity to the one pin but not the other. Take a look at the pictures.

I started to think my new relay was bad, so I did a test on it via help on YouTube and it NEVER clicked, my old one didn't either - honestly, I did not get readings on either relay. I did, per the attached document I found on the web jump the relay and all it did was the wire got super hot and the plug for the relay started to smoke!!!! I jerked the copper out and it went back to normal. I did this bridge test with the ignition on if that makes any difference? I am still perplexed about the fuse, it is certainly tapped into the boot/plug.

So, what do you guys think? I appreciate the help so much!

Old Relay - plug after the bit of smoke.



Showing which wires I jumped with the copper.

So STRANGE, why is the boot tied in like this to this part of a fuse - should I really just ignore it


For some reason I thought this was important.

Pointing out which lug on the starter solenoid the wire goes too - the wire looks lke it is supposed to be there, it looks like it was just tapped for power.

A close look a the boot/plug - copper wire is in the side that tests good continuity

Again, the relay plug - Not sure why this was important to show but I did


Image that I used to jump the relay - either I did it wrong or something weird is up.

 

[Shadrack]

I'm just trying to help him get his brake lights functioning right now. Once that's sorted, if he feels he has a braking issue, he can start a new thread and we'll help him get through that.

Thank you all so much, this dude is breathing down my neck about transferring it. I get his side of it, I do, but I gotta get this fixed.

 

[Shadrack]

Don, you tested continuity on the brake switch and said it "stuck". This could be defective brake switch or it's possible the booster/master cylinder is sticking and therefore not releasing pressure on the switch. My recommendation is replace the brake switch if you haven't already, they're cheap and readily available, and see if that fixes the issue. But if it turns out the booster/master cylinder is sticking, that's bad and would result in the brakes dragging constantly which will kill the brake shoes and possibly damage the drums and other components.

Doug

I have a bad feeling it is probably the master cyl. I will probably replace it as soon as I can get this thing past inspections. I have a new switch on the way🙂 Thanks!

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve,

Okay, I went out and did the one side of the boot/plug it is hard to see the color of the wires because they are so old. I included pictures. It tested positive for connectivity to the one pin but not the other. Take a look at the pictures.

I started to think my new relay was bad, so I did a test on it via help on YouTube and it NEVER clicked, my old one didn't either - honestly, I did not get readings on either relay. I did, per the attached document I found on the web jump the relay and all it did was the wire got super hot and the plug for the relay started to smoke!!!! I jerked the copper out and it went back to normal. I did this bridge test with the ignition on if that makes any difference? I am still perplexed about the fuse, it is certainly tapped into the boot/plug.

So, what do you guys think? I appreciate the help so much!

Old Relay - plug after the bit of smoke.

View attachment 3905

Showing which wires I jumped with the copper.
View attachment 3906
So STRANGE, why is the boot tied in like this to this part of a fuse - should I really just ignore it
View attachment 3907

For some reason I thought this was important.
View attachment 3908
Pointing out which lug on the starter solenoid the wire goes too - the wire looks lke it is supposed to be there, it looks like it was just tapped for power.
View attachment 3909
A close look a the boot/plug - copper wire is in the side that tests good continuity
View attachment 3910
Again, the relay plug - Not sure why this was important to show but I did
View attachment 3911
Image that I used to jump the relay - either I did it wrong or something weird is up.

View attachment 3912

If I were you I would not mess with the relay yet. You have a new relay and a plug that seems like it belongs on it. At this point I would just hook that back up the way it belongs and just leave it alone unless troubleshooting issues brings you back to it.
You say one pin checked continuity but what did you check it to? What was the other point where you found it checks continuity? You have a wire in the plug and you touched it with the black multimeter lead. What did you touch the red multimeter lead to?

 

[Shadrack]

Update:

I left the red/green wire hooked up the constant battery via alligator clip cables and had the old relay plugged in. Turned on the ignition turned it off. Walked around a bit and smoke poured off the wire, got burns on my hand from jerking the wire off the battery. Hmm.,...and ouch!

 

[fordrodsteven]

Update:

I left the red/green wire hooked up the constant battery via alligator clip cables and had the old relay plugged in. Turned on the ignition turned it off. Walked around a bit and smoke poured off the wire, got burns on my hand from jerking the wire off the battery. Hmm.,...and ouch!

You're jumping around and doing things you should not be doing! I cannot help you sort this out if you just hook shoot up and then cause wiring fires! One step at a time. We need to figure what the last guy did to the wiring so it can be analyzed and either deemed acceptable or requiring correction.
First things first. Put things back the way it was when you started and had some of the stuff working. Then consider each circuit as I have said from the start.
You said you have working taillights. Good!
You said you have working emergency flashers. Good!
You said the directionals work. Good!

You said brake lights do not work. Bad! That is what needs to be sorted. I'm trying to walk you through a troubleshooting process that will get it sorted / repaired. We are working from original wiring diagrams but it appears someone may have altered or modified the circuits on your car. Let's figure out what the hell is going on with your car and get you through that inspection.

Don't be jumping wires nilly-willy then put power to them and shorting out things that were already functioning!
I'll back off and leave you to figure it out with someone else if that's what you want. Just let me know.

 

[64ZCODE]

Thank you all so much, this dude is breathing down my neck about transferring it. I get his side of it, I do, but I gotta get this fixed.

Of course he is, even though he sold it to you with issues that need to be fixed!

 

[Shadrack]

You're jumping around and doing things you should not be doing! I cannot help you sort this out if you just hook shoot up and then cause wiring fires! One step at a time. We need to figure what the last guy did to the wiring so it can be analyzed and either deemed acceptable or requiring correction.
First things first. Put things back the way it was when you started and had some of the stuff working. Then consider each circuit as I have said from the start.
You said you have working taillights. Good!
You said you have working emergency flashers. Good!
You said the directionals work. Good!

You said brake lights do not work. Bad! That is what needs to be sorted. I'm trying to walk you through a troubleshooting process that will get it sorted/repaired. We are working from original wiring diagrams but it appears someone may have altered or modified the circuits on your car. Let's figure out what the hell is going on with your car and get you through that inspection.

Don't be jumping wires nilly-willy then put power to them and shorting out things that were already functioning!
I'll back off and leave you to figure it out with someone else if that's what you want. Just let me know.

YES SIR! I learned my lesson the hard way and have the blisters to prove it, no more dumb crap - I swear. I appreciate your help, don't give up on me - I feel like we are almost there, and I truly need your help - very sorry. This is the exact procedure that happened.

The red/green wire that is hanging in front of the fuse box. I hooked a wire up to it via alligator clips and then hooked it up to the positive side of the battery. I put the original flasher back in, and put everything back to the way it was. A few minutes went by and the smoke came off the wire that I ran from the eyelet to the battery - I jerked it off with my bare hands.

Everything is still working, I got lucky this time - I promise I will follow your advice to a T because it is obvious I am clueless.


I plugged the relay up correctly, put a new 15 amp fuse in. Everything is working but the brake lights. So we are still good to go.

You stated earlier, "If I were you I would not mess with the relay yet. You have a new relay and a plug that seems like it belongs on it. At this point, I would just hook that back up the way it belongs and just leave it alone unless troubleshooting issues brings you back to it.
You say one pin checked continuity but what did you check it to? What was the other point where you found it checks continuity? You have a wire in the plug and you touched it with the black multimeter lead. What did you touch the red multimeter lead to?"

Here is what I did. The wire that is hanging down in front of the fuse panel, the green/red wire that has the eyelet. I will include a picture:

I hooked this green/red wire up to an alligator clip and ran it to the negative lead on my multimeter. I then probed the boot/cap and found the left side working - did this with and without the copper piece - I found that my lead had enough meat on it to get into the boot. As soon as I touched it on that one side it beeped and showed continuity. Does that make sense, I think I ran the test correctly?

As you said:
You said you have working taillights. Good!
You said you have working emergency flashers. Good!
You said the directionals work. Good!

This is all still true.

At this point, I am at a loss. It would seem there is continutiy between the red/green wire and the left side of the boot/cap. What I do not understand is why when I hooked the red/green wire up to a constant source like it should be - or I thought it should be - it went up in smoke after 5 minutes or so. Is there resistance in the line, or did I use a jumper cable with too small of a gauge, or do you think that the wire splice that goes into the boot from the fender well somehow interferes with another wiring?

Again, Look forward to working with you and the rest - I promise no more cowboy antics.

 

[fordrodsteven]

YES SIR! I learned my lesson the hard way and have the blisters to prove it, no more dumb crap - I swear. I appreciate your help, don't give up on me - I feel like we are almost there, and I truly need your help - very sorry. This is the exact procedure that happened.

The red/green wire that is hanging in front of the fuse box. I hooked a wire up to it via alligator clips and then hooked it up to the positive side of the battery. I put the original flasher back in, and put everything back to the way it was. A few minutes went by and the smoke came off the wire that I ran from the eyelet to the battery - I jerked it off with my bare hands.

Everything is still working, I got lucky this time - I promise I will follow your advice to a T because it is obvious I am clueless.


I plugged the relay up correctly, put a new 15 amp fuse in. Everything is working but the brake lights. So we are still good to go.

You stated earlier, "If I were you I would not mess with the relay yet. You have a new relay and a plug that seems like it belongs on it. At this point, I would just hook that back up the way it belongs and just leave it alone unless troubleshooting issues brings you back to it.
You say one pin checked continuity but what did you check it to? What was the other point where you found it checks continuity? You have a wire in the plug and you touched it with the black multimeter lead. What did you touch the red multimeter lead to?"

Here is what I did. The wire that is hanging down in front of the fuse panel, the green/red wire that has the eyelet. I will include a picture:
View attachment 3913
I hooked this green/red wire up to an alligator clip and ran it to the negative lead on my multimeter. I then probed the boot/cap and found the left side working - did this with and without the copper piece - I found that my lead had enough meat on it to get into the boot. As soon as I touched it on that one side it beeped and showed continuity. Does that make sense, I think I ran the test correctly?

As you said:
You said you have working taillights. Good!
You said you have working emergency flashers. Good!
You said the directionals work. Good!

This is all still true.

At this point, I am at a loss. It would seem there is continutiy between the red/green wire and the left side of the boot/cap. What I do not understand is why when I hooked the red/green wire up to a constant source like it should be - or I thought it should be - it went up in smoke after 5 minutes or so. Is there resistance in the line, or did I use a jumper cable with too small of a gauge, or do you think that the wire splice that goes into the boot from the fender well somehow interferes with another wiring?

Again, Look forward to working with you and the rest - I promise no more cowboy antics.

It may well have been too small of a wire but it should not get hot and burning unless there is power going through it... such as maybe running power from that splice while also running wire from the green-red wire or a possible stuck brake light switch or sticking pedal causing the switch to make a connection through it. Let's work further through the system/wiring to see what is what exactly before putting any power to anything just yet. And yes, My suspicion is the wires got hot and started melting because of interference from that splice when you also hooked up the green-red wire.

Okay, so the green-red wire from the fuse box goes through to the boot/plug as it should. That's good news. Now, FYI the other wire on that boot/plug would be the solid green wire that feeds to the directional switch. Don't concern yourself with that yet.
You say that splice that someone added also goes to that boot/plug? Can you figure out exactly what they did? Is that where you say one wire comes from the starter solenoid to a 15A spade fuse and then feeds into that harness where the brake switch boot/plug is? Let me know. I might have to ask you to dig in a little further .
What 15A fuse is this that you said you put back in? Is that on that spliced in wire?

 

[Shadrack]

It may well have been too small of a wire but it should not get hot and burning unless there is power going through it... such as maybe running power from that splice while also running wire from the green-red wire or a possible stuck brake light switch or sticking pedal causing the switch to make a connection through it. Let's work further through the system/wiring to see what is what exactly before putting any power to anything just yet. And yes, My suspicion is the wires got hot and started melting because of interference from that splice when you also hooked up the green-red wire.

Okay, so the green-red wire from the fuse box goes through to the boot/plug as it should. That's good news. Now, FYI the other wire on that boot/plug would be the solid green wire that feeds to the directional switch. Don't concern yourself with that yet.
You say that splice that someone added also goes to that boot/plug? Can you figure out exactly what they did? Is that where you say one wire comes from the starter solenoid to a 15A spade fuse and then feeds into that harness where the brake switch boot/plug is? Let me know. I might have to ask you to dig in a little further .
What 15A fuse is this that you said you put back in? Is that on that spliced in wire?

Hey Steve,
I am pretty sure the boot/plug was unplugged from the switch and was not bridged - so it was very odd that I had the smoke show/ burnt hand lol. There is a bunch of electrical tape around the boot/plug where it is spliced in. I took the carb off tonight, tore it down, and am soaking it for a rebuild. So I have really easy access to all those wires now. I will split the tape off and see what we have. I will take pictures and post them. I am actually very curious to see what that splice is about. I assume as we have discussed a bit, that it was a way to get around from using the red/green wire for some reason. Odd. I wonder if there is some sort of resistance in the line.

I tested the voltage on the red/green wire and it is not hot on its own. I still do not understand why I had a smoke show.

To answer your question about the splice, I bought some fuse holders attached to some wire, I put one of those in as opposed to the hack job the other guy did - not that mine is not a hack job.

I'm on it Steve - thanks for the help so much!

Don

 

[Shadrack]

Of course he is, even though he sold it to you with issues that need to be fixed!

Very true, guy is a bit intense. I am keeping him at bay with threats of negative feedback because he listed the car as running and driving - all lights and windows working, and just needed a power steering belt - it needs a new water pump because the ear is broken off that holds the pump belt tension. Not to mention it had more rust and dents than he let on.

I am thrilled to have the car, but the dude did not represent it fairly - so, for now, threats of negative feedback are working, but I need to0 get these brake lights sorted this week if I can.

 

[fordrodsteven]

Hey Steve,
I am pretty sure the boot/plug was unplugged from the switch and was not bridged - so it was very odd that I had the smoke show/ burnt hand lol. There is a bunch of electrical tape around the boot/plug where it is spliced in. I took the carb off tonight, tore it down, and am soaking it for a rebuild. So I have really easy access to all those wires now. I will split the tape off and see what we have. I will take pictures and post them. I am actually very curious to see what that splice is about. I assume as we have discussed a bit, that it was a way to get around from using the red/green wire for some reason. Odd. I wonder if there is some sort of resistance in the line.

I tested the voltage on the red/green wire and it is not hot on its own. I still do not understand why I had a smoke show.

To answer your question about the splice, I bought some fuse holders attached to some wire, I put one of those in as opposed to the hack job the other guy did - not that mine is not a hack job.

I'm on it Steve - thanks for the help so much!

Don

I would say the "smoke show" was most likely because when you hooked up the green-red wire at the lug it was also connected at the solenoid through that hack fuse. Hooking to two power sources on one wire at the same time is not a good thing.
And yes, I would like to see what the hacker did right there where the wires are spliced together. I'm inclined to say just to remove the hack and we'll fix it in a more correct method but don't do that just yet. Let's first figure out what you have going on there.

 

[Shadrack]

I would say the "smoke show" was most likely because when you hooked up the green-red wire at the lug it was also connected at the solenoid through that hack fuse. Hooking to two power sources on one wire at the same time is not a good thing.
And yes, I would like to see what the hacker did right there where the wires are spliced together. I'm inclined to say just to remove the hack and we'll fix it in a more correct method but don't do that just yet. Let's first figure out what you have going on there.

Steve.
Excellent thoughts. I will do my best to get out there today and get the loom open and get us a good look. I will take lots of pictures.

I will say this. It seems that the wire that is running to the solenoid has been spliced before down by the horns - there is a butt connector and it goes into another wire which goes onto the solenoid, so it has been cut in two spots. I will get pictures ASAP.

Thank you so much - I sincerely appreciate your help.